What do you think about the Turkish Constitutional Court’s ruling that banned headscarves in universities?

First of all one gets the feeling that the party might also be disbanded and that is the first thing that I can think of really, everything points in that that direction. I am extremely critical of this decision, especially due to the fact that it has become very clear that constitutional amendments could be stopped this way. This may mean the end of democratisation, since one needs constitutional amendments to proceed with democratisation.

Should parliament and society debate and decide on this issue?

Yes. It is also bad for politics in general, because this decision has in a sense reduced the issue to the very survival of politics. I mean there is no really deep political issue there anymore, but politics is now about whether there will be any politics or not. You see what I mean? And there are many other political issues waiting to be discussed, but we spent the whole of the last year addressing the survival of politics and we are still unable to guarantee this.

Do you think the veil issue is over-estimated by everybody in Europe? It is constantly discussed.

Yes, but the in Turkey it is different, because in Turkey we talk about the ban on the headscarf in universities, so we are talking about adult citizens, and this, I believe, is a fundamentally different issue in the Turkish case. I do not see the possibility of any reasonable person who has internalised the fundamental democratic principles preventing women from wearing the headscarf in university campuses. I do not think this is an issue in Europe, anyway. The discussion in Europe concerns primary and secondary schools.

Some people, like Andrew Arato, say that perhaps this decision might have a positive element if the Constitutional Court does not ban the AKP. What are your thoughts?

No, I think the opposite. It seems to me that this decision indicated the likelihood that the AKP may well be closed down.

What would happen?

Nobody knows, you see, that is the issue. Nobody knows. But I am sure that the AKP will implement its own strategies. Perhaps a new party will be formed, however, what I am saying is that this is all about how to keep politics alive, whereas there are instead other issues that need to be dealt with.

Would you compare the AKP to for example the CDU (the Christian Democrats) in Germany.

Yes, they are comparable and the AKP seems very similar to a conservative party. First and foremost it has religious origins, but all post-conservative parties have a religious base. I am sure there are groups within the party, as in any other political party, who would like to promote a more fundamentalist agenda, but there are also people opposing that, so there is a debate within the party.

Some people fear that the climate is changing in this society. For example, some weeks ago a German politician, a female Turkish-German politician came to Istanbul, went to a hotel bar and…

…Could not have a drink. (Laughter) Well, I am sure this has also happened in the past, I am sure it has. I don’t have any statistics with me proving that it has become more difficult to have a drink in Turkey. I am sure this is the case in certain cities, but I am sure that things were the same ten years ago. So, basically I see that as a problem. It results in a ‘case’ of course, but the way forward is within the political reality with other lively, vivid political parties really opposing the central party, rather than resorting to extra-political means and even resorting to an attempt to close down a political party.

Why do you think that many European countries do not want Turkey in Europe?

There are probably two main reasons. I am not going to say that the first one is religion, of course, as we all know, that is the second reason. The first one is probably population: it is a very densely populated country. And that is the more understandable reason. Religion is harder to comprehend really, but it is one of the reasons.

Are you in favour of Turkey’s accession to the European Union?

Yes, of course. That will be good for Turkey, and it will be good for Europe.

Why?

It will be good for Europe because it would be an indicator of the fact that Europe is open to diversity, and I think this is an internal EU issue too. Also within Europe, you know, this is part of politics. The British are more supportive whereas the French and the Austrians are not, and I think this is an issue internally discussed within the EU and it will be a portrayal of the Europe we will really be seeing in the future.