Why does the construction of a mosque always spark so many disputes?

I can identify one of the causes in the terrible service provided by the media on this issue. It is all too evident that news in circulation of the construction of a mosque will provoke disputes. The media is doing everything it can so that the debate ignites; in this way public interest is kept alive and the minds do not get too exasperated. Normally, at this point the more prestigious television talk shows intervene, who throw petrol on the fire and not rarely are “factious”. The majority of people identify this media bombardment with the truth. They do not realize that it is incomplete information, domesticated if not, sometimes, false even. There are hundreds of Muslim cults (mosques) nationwide, often in places on loan from Catholic parishes. People do not know this, if they do not live near these places. But if it is revealed that in a mosque or in places of Muslim cult, an Imam is suspected of collaborating with terrorists, or who preaches violence (which unfortunately sometimes happens), then it becomes front page news; it is on the news on television, it is most probably discussed even on talk shows. Everybody will know of this negative news. It goes without saying that people will do the sum “mosque = terrorist haunt”. When I was a boy and I lived in the United States, over forty years’ ago, for many Americans an Italian was inevitably a Mafiosi. I would also add that some politicians take on a notable role in these debates, some of whose irrational positions and venomous statements have a negative influence on public opinion. To such figures the common good, that is peaceful coexistence, is not very important. Rather, they think more about their own political interests which from these debates they can reap enormous advantages, facilitated by the diffused ignorance of people.

What is your judgement on what Roberto Calderoli, member of the Northern League, said about Pig Day? Is it a comical act or rather a worrying offensive act?

I do not think it can be considered to be a comical act. In my opinion Mr. Roberto Calderoli is completely deprived of any sense of humour; he rarely makes one smile, but not for the “humour”. I do not even think that it can be considered worrying the proposal to promote a “pig-day”: it is so deprived of common sense and is so grotesque, even seriously indecent, that it died before being born. If he had really organized such a demonstration, some of the most extreme members of his party would have participated, people who, everything taken into account, when LA seen on television, leaves much to be considered. The very large majority of Italians would never identify with positions as extreme as this. What I did like though, was the joke made by the honourable Paolo Ferrero, Minister for Social Solidarity, who said: “The honourable Calderoli certainly knows more about pigs than about Islam, but a bit more respect for other religious beliefs would not go amiss”. I think he was right. The same spokesperson of the UCOII (Union of Islamic Communities in Italy), Mr. Issedin Elzir, after having accused Roberto Calderoli of stirring up religious hatred and of not knowing about Islam, said: “Muslims do not eat pork, just like the Jewish, but if the animal walks on the land, it makes no difference”.

Can we speak of Italian-style Islamophobia?

I think so. Even if, I would say, it is more on a “subconscious” level. Rarely would an Italian questioned on this issue admit that this phenomenon exists in Italy. In recent years I have heard many experts speak about this issue. There has been documented evidence – they say – that for years, even in Italy, a truly disparaging campaign is in progress, destined to create a diffused aversion towards Islam in public opinion, and as a result, towards Muslims. There are expert architects behind all of this, amongst whom, politicians. The mass media is obviously the preferred channel for carrying out this campaign. Basically, hardly ever are the positive aspects brought to light; the countless examples of harmonious coexistence of Muslims and Christians all over Italy. How many associations for dialogue are active and are bearing fruit, how many initiatives! But, unfortunately, what is normally read in the newspapers or that is seen on TV on Islam or on Muslims is more often than not negative, if not downright criminal: almost not a day goes by, that something is heard about terrorism or anti-terrorism and the phenomenon is sadly and unfairly equalled to Islam. It is therefore essential that Muslims and Christians, and there are many, of their own good will, united and react to the state of affairs, multiplying the initiatives to show that reality is different to what which is normally presented to public opinion.

Those against the construction of the mosques evoke the principle of reciprocity. In your opinion is this principle not in contrast with the message of Christ?

First of all, it seems necessary to make something clear, based on my personal experience. For many years I lived in mainly Muslim Countries. I visited many others for brief periods. I have to say that in almost all of them I found Christian and Catholic churches, with thriving communities, often with confessional schools open to everyone, and I seemed to understand that in none of the places could one speak of lack of religious freedom, whether for the community or for the clergy. Certainly, in some places the Christians are, sometimes, heavily discriminated against, such as in Pakistan for example. But the only country where there is still the most complete intransigence and intolerance regards other religions, apart from Islam, is Saudi Arabia. I was left quite astonished when, years ago I had the opportunity to hear from the Saudi Foreign Affairs Minister that “on the Saudi government’s part there would not be any real difficulties in giving permission for the construction of Christian churches: for the Catholic community for example, which thanks to massive immigration from the Philippines, India, Sri Lanka and other Asian countries, has now over 300,000 believers. Nevertheless, the obstinate contrary position of the Mullahs does not make this development possible for now”. One hears talk of reciprocity and the majority thinks, wrongly-so, that in Muslim countries it is forbidden to build Christian churches. Which is false. Accept for Saudi Arabia and perhaps the Sultan of Brunei, and it was in Afghanistan with the Taliban recently and with the Soviets before, in all other Muslim countries there are churches, Catholic and of other Christian denominations.

The principle “do ut des” which can be translated as “I give to be able to receive in return”, goes back to Ancient Roman culture and is certainly widely used today. But it does not contain even the shadow of Christ’s teachings! It does not exist in any of the verses of the four Gospels who narrate the works and His teachings. Therefore, Jesus has never used this criteria of “interested” reciprocity, let alone taught it; rather he said: “Give and you will receive”, which is very different! Jesus speaks of a “giving” without expecting anything back in return, and yet, precisely because this giving is love, sooner or later it will reciprocated. The reciprocity requested by Jesus regarding relationships bases itself on a precise and demanding commandment, given to all his disciplines: “love each other reciprocatively, just as I have loved you” (Gv.13,35). This is Christianity! It is evident, therefore, how reciprocity is understood in this case as ‘We will let you build the Mosques here if you let us build churches there’, has nothing evangelical about it and therefore clashes with the teachings of Christ. Nevertheless we must not forget that we already have many mosques in Italy (just think that the mosque in Rome is the biggest in Europe and has one of the most prestigious Islamic Cultural Centre attached). I think we need to follow the walk as serenely as possible, without letting ourselves be intimidated by anything or anyone. Moreover, one should respect the law of every country which provide the rules and method for all construction, including for cult.

What do you make of the statement made by Mons. Ernesto Vecchi: “The Church is against and refuses the parallel mosque-parish, because the parish belongs to the social fabric of the Italian people, the mosque on the other hand, is something which is introduced”?

It is difficult to evaluate a sentence, especially when it is an extract from a wider context. It amazes me though, that Mons. Ernesto Vecchi has not made any clarifying statements regarding this sentence reported by many newspapers. In fact, his words lend themselves to being misinterpreted. If taken in context they really can be challenged; if then, as it seems, they are spoken in the name of the “Church”, there is the risk that they go against the official teachings of the Catholic Church as Inter-religious Dialogue material. It is impossible to count how many countries the Catholic Church brought the Gospel’s message to, when there was still no Christian cultural element; the hundreds of thousands of churches which were built were always and necessarily “something which was introduced” to use the words of the bishop, in this case it was the Catholic churches, not he mosques or the temples. Now those Christian churches and their respective communities, often with their own schools, are perfectly integrated in the social fabric, where they were “introduced” and, often, now make up an integral part, are respected, even though they remain a minority. I really do not think that the Muslim community in Bologna is seeking to build a mosque alongside every parish in the city. I think, we are talking of one mosque for more than every hundred parishes. But more than commenting on the words of the bishop, I would rather look at the fact that many bishops, clergymen, religious figures and people “of the church” seem to have forgotten certain essential documents of the Second Ecumenical Council of the Vaticans. The Council had been an impressive assembly of ore than 2,500 bishops convened in Rome from every corner of the world who worked for a lustre to really give a new face to the Catholic Church. At least 16 conciliar documents were drawn up. At the end of those five years of work it was the Year 1965. In recent times, there is now some worrying behaviour regarding the teachings of the Vatican II, in certain fields.

I could quote many texts, many combined statements made at the end of inter-religious meetings on a world level, often conveners from the Catholic Church in these decades, often with the presence of the Pontiff himself. But I will only quote a brief passage from the conciliar Declaration on “The Church’s relationships with Non-Christian Religions” also known as “Nostra Aetate” (28 October 1965). Paragraph 3 is on the “the points of contact with Muslims and the invite to a mutual understanding”. I recite the Paragraph at: “The Church looks on with esteem, the Muslims who love the only God, alive and subsistent, merciful and omnipresent, Creator of the Heavens and of the earth. (…) They worship Jesus Christ as a Prophet, they honour His Mother, the Virgin Mary and on occasion even invoke her with devotion”. Paragraph b: “If, over the course of the centuries, there has been much dissent and animosity between Christians and Muslims, the Sacred Saint Council urges everybody t forget the past and to exert wholly mutual understanding let alone defend and promote together, for everybody, social justice, moral values, peace and freedom”. The Declaration, after having condemned every type of hatred, discrimination, and persecution for reasons of race, colour, social conditions, religion, reminds us that “who does not love, does not know God” (1Gv. 4,8) and implores all Christians to maintain impeccable behaviour between people and, as far as what depends on them goes, “that they be at peace with all men until they are truly sons of the Father who is in the Heavens”. This is a brief quote on what the Church teaches to all Catholic Christians. If a Catholic, be it a politician, bishop or Pope, spoke against the teachings of the magistery of the Church, they are still a politician, a bishop, a pope, but not a Catholic.

You lived in Asia for 25 years. How is it possible to guarantee religious pluralism?

I have spent around half of my life in Asia and it was an experience which was so rich, profound, varied, and certainly marvellous, it is impossible to describe. The Philippines, China, India, Thailand, Pakistan, Malaysia, Singapore are countries where I have lived, but I have visited many others often for long stays, Vietnam, Burma, Indonesia, Korea, Japan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and others still. The strongest aspect was and still is meeting with the great religions. Never a superficial meeting. I cultivated profound friendships with people of different faiths: Hindu, Sikh, Sunni and Shiite Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Zoroastran and others. I learned a lot from each of them; they greatly enriched me. I found in them true sisters and brothers; at times the relationship with them was even deeper than with some of my sisters and brothers of the Christian Catholic faith. Nevertheless, I never thought, in all these long years, I would leave my Catholic faith. On the contrary! It was often the contact with friends from other religions, the evidence of their faith which spurred me to live better what I believe in. I will never forget what a great, elderly, Sikh patriarch who emitted wisdom from all his being once told me: “You are Christian, he said, what I expect from you is that you are another Jesus Christ, alive today!”. Honestly, I have experienced that where there is a relationship, and therefore “knowledge”, then there is reciprocated esteem, collaboration, even friendship.

But where there is no knowledge and therefore ignorance dominates, prejudices multiply, from which springs hatred which can flow into violence. In my opinion, there are two ways of guaranteeing religious pluralism. First of all, being in harmony with oneself, having inner peace, letting love guide our actions and especially inform our relationships with others. Moreover, all believers belonging to the more varied religions, but especially Jews, Christians and Muslims who identify themselves in the only Father Abraham, will have to make more of an effort to put into practice, in their everyday life, with whomever, what is defined as “the golden rule” which, even with slightly different words, contains, in all religions, the same commandment. In the Bible it is written: “Everything you would like people to do for you, you should do for them too.” (Mt. 7,12). For Muslims it is written in the Book of 40 Hadith, by An Nawawi, N. 13 which says: “You will never be a true believer until you desire for your brother what you desire for yourself”. I conclude my answer saying that there has never been a conflict or worse still, a war between different religions. There have, unfortunately, always been men of all the religions who do not practice what their religions preach. And here are the conflicts! The dialogue, harmony between people of different religions is not an option, it is an urgent necessity on every level and on all sides. Whoever thinks differently is a men or a woman of yesterday, of the past, not of today and less still of the future. The youth is a great hope.

In your opinion, why has inter-religious dialogue, especially with Muslims, had difficulty taking off?

I do not agree with this point. I think, and I have proof of it, that inter-religious dialogue in general, and precisely the Islamic-Christian one, has made enormous progress, unimaginable only a few decades ago. Apart from the dialogue which has taken place and which continues at the top: we have all seen John Paul II enter an ancient mosque in his momentous journey in Syria, on the traces of Abraham, and pray there; more recently Benedict XVI in another prestigious mosque, in Istanbul in Turkey, prayed for you; how many prestigious Muslim leaders, by the dozen, have participated and participate in inter-religious meetings on a world level? It would be enough to know something about the enormous job of “dialogue for life” carried out by famous communities such as Sant’Egidio or Movements such as the Focolar movement, but I could quote many more: a dialogue which bases itself precisely on the relationship of friendship, esteem, reciprocal listening, learning from each other. I will never forget the tears of joy of a great Pakistani Muslim leader, a friend of mine, partaker in an Islamic-Christian symposium in a Meeting Centre in Castelgandolfo, in fact organized by focolars. He had been told that the place where the meeting was taking place was the Vatican and that the pontifical villa was only a few metres away. That day, my friend Sakir had prayed with the other Muslims present in a prayer hall specially prepared for them. That night their emotions stopped him from sleeping: he could not believe that he had prayed as a Muslim with other Muslims in the house of the Pope!

Who, like myself, was in Assisi with John Paul II and tens of leaders of all the religions of the world in 1986 and, more recently, still in Assisi, after the tragedy of the twin towers, could ever forget that truly incredible experience, never taken place before in the entire history of humanity! The televisions the world over had cameras pointed on the event. How much respect between everyone, how much friendship, how much esteem, what gratitude expressed in a thousand ways to he who had had the courage to give life to like encounters. But, especially, thanks to the extraordinary “sacred” atmosphere which we breathed, one could truly experience that Love, God, was all around us, no one excluded. We should speak and write more about these experiences and about other experiences, perhaps smaller and more modest, but no less important, such as the one about a Catholic nun from a Sicilian village. There, there is a Charity Centre which she runs. Seeing that the Muslims who came to the Centre were the biggest group, she asked herself what she could do for them, to make them feel more at home. At first, she thought of hanging a beautiful painting with the name of God written in big letters in Arabic “Hallah”; then, to make them also understand something Christian, in their language, she made a poster with in big letters the most important Christian prayer, “Our Father”. It would take too long to recount the details, but things continued to improve, the relationships, from cold and distrustful at the beginning, soon changed and became friendship, collaboration, various initiatives which involved all the inhabitants of the village. It is by now a tradition to have a celebration where Mediterranean food is offered to everyone, with dancing, games between the cultures which fascinate everyone. The Catholic bishop of the place is always in the front row of every party. In conclusion, there is a dialogue which perhaps makes a slight uproar, but it is there. Not only that, but it is growing. It is a shame that the media is so fascinated by horror, by everything which is bad, which is a scandal, which is rotten, by what “makes news”. They say, as if to excuse themselves, that everything “sells more”. In Brazil they say that “a tree which falls makes more noise than a whole forest growing”. Let’s look at the forest which is growing.

What is your advice to Muslims living in Italy?

This question makes me slightly embarrassed. I am not a “personality” nor an “expert”, and I do not consider myself to be an authority to be able to give advice. I could perhaps make an exhortation to our many friends, Muslim sisters and brothers who live in Italy. I know there are now many of you. Your children are friends of Italian children of the same age; they grow and study together. You are in a country which is now your second home. You give your precious contribution You have a lot of cultural, spiritual, folkloristic, musical wealth. Make yourselves known better still. Do not be afraid. Do not let yourselves be intimidated by evil affirmations which some make and which hurt you; rise above them and have faith in the many, and it the majority, who want to welcome you, but perhaps who know you too little still. Have faith! Give your love and you will receive some in return. Show everyone your great faith in the Great and Merciful God, whom everyone needs.

Translation by Sonia Ter Hovanessian