All one has to do is look around the centre ville, on the now famous Avenue Bourguiba, where the most important protests take place and where the most popular cafés are situated, crowded from early on in the morning. People’s faces are tense, insecure and perplexed. Men and women still feel frustrated and are covered in moral bruises and chain smoking. The future of their country remains unclear, and although the present is more dynamic than the past, they have no intention of lowering their guard. The secular and the Salafites, those on the right and on the left, students, artists and journalists, mingle in the streets during the day, where the adrenalin and the desire to debate matters is contagious, while as soon as the sun sets the city empties and homes are filled with discussions and a desire to create a future in which dignity, as the mother of all human rights, seems to be at the heart of every project.

The word sahafia, which means journalist in Arabic, become a useful passepartout for me to avoid long waits and easily enter the halls of the ministry. Minister Samir Dilou, born in Tunis in 1966 in the Lafayette district, receives me in the room reserved for official meetings and seems happy to hear the sound of the Italian language.

“During my detention, which lasted 10 years, 2 months and 8 days,” the minister specifies, “we were not permitted to watch French channels on television, so the guards left the TV set on RAI, thinking it was a language we did not understand and could not listen to the news. But my generation grew up watching RAI programmes such as “Pronto Raffaella” and my daughter had also sent me an Italian language book so I could study and report the news to other prisoners. So I learned to understand your language and listened to the news every day. I did it with my back to the television set so they would not notice…”

Samir Dilou is a lawyer. He studied law in Sousse and embarked on his political career in 1984. He is committed to defend activists accused of being Islamists and for this he was arrested in 1991 and completed his sentence in full. Once released he joined the Islamist party Ennahda and in the October 23rd 2011 elections was elected to the Constituent Assembly to represent the electoral district of Bizerte and was later appointed minister. Some say he will be one of Ennahda’s future leaders in Tunisia.

Minister, what is the situation as far as human rights are concerned at the moment in Tunisia?

The situation has improved but it is still does not meet our expectations. I would say, however, that the opposite would have been a great surprise, because during transition periods attacks against human rights are no longer a state apparatus policy but become individual actions. In order to put an end to this aberration one needs great willpower, perseverance and time.

What issues are you addressing at the moment?

We have a number of problems in the country at the moment. I preside over a commission investigating torture. It consists of representatives of various ministries and a number of civil society’s associations. Without addressing the results, I can say that it will not be easy to put an end to torture because ending a dictatorship is difficult and complicated, but creating a democracy that respects human rights is even more difficult. One must ensure that the judicial climate is calm, reform the institutions and then slowly change mentalities.

At what point is the much-debated issue of Transitional Justice?

It has been decided to proceed with this in a spirit of agreement and dialogue, avoiding all forms of haste. Ours is the ministry that has perhaps held the most meetings with politicians and with the representatives of civil society’s associations. On April 14th we organised a national conference to open the debate on Transitional Justice and soon after we organized an ‘open day’ to set up a national collective debating programme that will end with parliament approving an organic law on Transitional Justice. So as to ensure our vision becomes reality, the passing of the law must not only be entrusted to the Constituent Assembly, but also reflect the expectations of all of society, in addition to the majority and the various parties represented in parliament. We are providing our interlocutors with the example of the constitution, which in our opinion must be drafted in a spirit of collective bargaining and not exclusively by the majority, and it is therefore in the same spirit that we hope to draft the law on Transition Justice.

Do you not believe that you are moving rather slowly both in preparing the Transitional Justice law and in drafting a new constitution?

As far as the constitution is concerned I can tell you that the Assembly is working every day. Although people are not informed about every single meeting held, there are commissions that are continuously at work. Regarding the Transitional Justice law it would not be a good idea to rush things. Examples of transition justice enacted very quickly following a revolution have failed. One needs a little distance, re-establish calm to work more peacefully, with a steadier mind and without pressure.

Have any decisions been taken concerning compensation for former prisoners during the Ben Ali era?

We have prepared a draft bill including a decree with a general pardon, guaranteeing compensation and rehabilitation for all those who receive a pardon. Among them there are people of all political ideas, from the Right, the Left and Islamists. For the moment we have received over 10,000 files.

One hot issue in recent weeks has been the privatisation of the mass media. What is your opinion in this debate?

This is an issue that lacks significance, personally I cannot imagine a country without state media. For us state TV remains a symbol of sovereignty. Today’s Tunisia as well as tomorrow’s will have to have its state media.

Ennahda, however, seems instead more inclined towards privatization…

Political parties are free to express their opinions even when they are part of the government. The government, however, has the means to express itself and people who speak in its name.

What is your definition of freedom?

Freedom is the most important thing in the world when one loses it, just like health when one is ill. Ask someone who is ill what health means and he will tell you, while this is not as easy for those in good health. If you had asked me this question before 2011, my answer would have been fast and easy and I am well-aware that in spite of all my chatting I have not answered your question. This reveals a great deal…

Returning to the press, in your opinion why are many journalists so opposed to the government?

This is quite normal. A journalist has the right and perhaps even the duty to criticize and politicians have the duty to accept such criticism. If the criticism is objective it helps politicians to adjust and avoid repeating the same mistakes. If criticism is less objective, it helps politicians exercise self-control and tests their ability to remain calm.

In recent months many artists, intellectuals and journalists have been attacked by Salafites. What contact is there between the government and these extremist groups?

In the Arabic language there is only one letter that is different between the word ‘exaggerating’, tah-wil, and the word ‘minimizing’, tah-win. In this case I wish to do neither. One of the words I use the most in preparing procedures for Transition Justice is the word Truth. Before commenting and drawing conclusions, one must first explain what is really happening. In recent months there have been very many incidents, things that are almost normal in a transition period. Obviously no attacks must tolerated on human rights, on the right to express one’s opinions and the right to create. However, it is necessary to understand that this is a transition period and there are three aspects that must be analysed. The first is that the state’s authority has not yet been fully asserted because the state is being created, it is under construction as far as constitutional and institutional frameworks are concerned. Secondly, political progress works in tandem with social-economic challenges that make the situation more unstable and more vulnerable, obliging us to be more realistic and patient. The third element is that absolute black does not exist and even dictatorships can have something positive. They do tend to suffocate freedom, but also block extremism. Extremist tendencies breathe easier with freedom and thus achieve greater visibility. Freedom cannot be characterised by a variable geometry. Therefore the government’s role is not to make choices based on politics, ideology or culture, but to apply the law. This is feasible in normal times, but far less easy during transition periods. We do however believe we are on the right path. After this lengthy introduction, I will end up pronouncing the word Salafite. I was the first to study this problem in Tunisia in 2003, and one of the results was the conclusion that one should absolutely not play games to frighten one another. These are complicated problems of political, ideological and social-economic origin and must be addressed as an overall issue. An approach managed exclusively using security forces would only result in a catastrophe. Small violent groups with an Islamic ideology have never seen the light of day either in mosques or universities, but in prisons. The only thing we can do is apply the law, while obviously strictly respecting human rights.

Translated by Francesca Simmons